So my Carb on my Hall is reaching end of life. The Fast cam was frozen soild. My Dad was able to losen it up and get it working but I agree with his thoughts that this carb is not worth rebuilding. So Matt I know you said you did an upgrade? Part of me is thinking getting a Holley 500 or something like it. Other thought is to go with a 4 bbl intake and 600 Carb. The trick being finding one that'll work with the kick down. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-RM08600VS/ Not sure if something like this would work with the kick down but the price is right. I keep seeing dual plane 360 intakes for $100-150.. Any advice is welcome as this is my first Dodge. (Was mainly a Ford guy but owned many different cars over the years).

I don't know about that particular carburetor but I know that Summit sells kickdown adapters for the Edelbrock carbs. You can also get a cable kickdown system made by Lokar. Also sold through Summit.

I've got a Carter TQ and and Edelbrock intake that I'll probably put on mine. The TQ is quite a good carburetor if you can get it working right. The one on my Brougham works great.

_________________
Nick Taylor - Green & White 1974 Hall GTC.
www.NicksGarage.com == www.HallGTC.com == www.NicksTeardrop.com

Ah yes. I went through this last year. Here's what I ended up doing:

Removed original 2 barrel Holley and iron intake with an Edelbrock dual-plane intake and twice rebuilt Carter Thermoquad. The TQ rebuild was a very long and expensive process, but to to get the jets and metering rods matched for RV application it's what you have to do.

I had to make my own throttle linkage to allow everything to properly function - including the kickdown. Finding the right air cleaner was a junkyard scene, but I didn't want a free-flow system like Edelbrock and Holley sell because of the incredible racket carbs produce when the throttle plates are wide open, especially when you're sitting right next to em.

I then had the exhaust system replaced from the headers (they came with my rig) back with 3".

All in all, the thing really moves out now. Way, way better than with the original equipment. Not sure about what the MPG is currently doing, but hope to later in the Summer.

Here's an alternative kickdown cable kit that I read great things about on another forum.

http://www.bouchillonperformance.com/bpetkdc.asp

Supposedly the cable is from later Dodge vans with the overdrive transmission.

_________________
Nick Taylor - Green & White 1974 Hall GTC.
www.NicksGarage.com == www.HallGTC.com == www.NicksTeardrop.com

So this is high on my todo list this year.. Matt any guess on what MPG you are getting with your setup? I am tempted to just find another stock 2 barrel to rebuild and call it good.. If I ever had a lot of $$$ to throw at it I would just get a 2000+ van efi engine/trans/steering swapped in

I am having issues with my carb also and found a website for rebuilt carb so I am going to give it a try. Also adding an electric fuel pump this time.

Stan

http://www.guaranteedcarburetors.com//c ... T48&page=1

Eric, I get about 14mpg in my Brougham if I keep it below 60mph and don't climb a lot of mountains. It has a Thermoquad on a 360. Weighs a bit less and is maybe a touch more aerodynamic. Both have the same rear axle ratio but the taller tires on the GTC cuts that down a little. The TQ has smaller primaries than the 2bbl carb so it can be a bit more fuel efficient. But open those huge secondaries and watch the fuel gauge go down.

I've got an aluminum intake and '74 TQ to put on my GTC.

_________________
Nick Taylor - Green & White 1974 Hall GTC.
www.NicksGarage.com == www.HallGTC.com == www.NicksTeardrop.com

What the heck? I just wrote this long answer but it all disappeared when my hand touched the front rail of my laptop. #!&^%!!!

Anyhow, I went with an Edelbrock Performer (dual plane) and and Edelbrock 1400 with electric choke. Because the 1400 is a squarebore I needed an adaptor (also Edelbrock) plate to mate them up properly. This makes the height very dicey though, since the aircleaner (you'll need a new one for a 4 barrel) just rubs on the bottom of the doghouse now. I considered Holley, but everything I've heard about them made me steer clear - mainly because of backfire problems (as in blowing out the power valves) and the need for extensive tuning to get them right. The 1400 is an excellent carb, mine being 500 CFM (if I remember right), which is actually more than enough for a 360 @ < 5,000 RPM. The crappy little (not so little really) 2 barrel that Dodge stuck on there is actually pretty well sized for non-hot rod applications, all appearances to the contrary.

I went with a 4 barrel with small primaries in hopes of getting better MPG cruising down the highway and more oomph in the mountains with the secondaries open, which all my research on the subject confirms. I started out with a 650 CFM Thermoquad, which was way too much for an RV. WAAAAY.
I also wanted an electtric choke because of numerous problems I had with the stock divorced choke and all the fooling around required to get the actuator arms the right length. Don't bother.

As we speak (metaphorically) I am replacing both my engine and transmission, which I have wanted to do for a long time - just because of leaks, lowering oil pressure, the need for a valve job (@106,000 miles) and the old 727 getting noisey. I found a 1984 360 with 50 miles on it that was remanufactured by GM (of all people) FOR GM. All I can guess about this is that it must have been for military applications or industrial use of some kind, but I'm happy as a clam about it! Turns out that the original buyer didn't fit the (required) harmonic balancer and balanced flexplate to the engine when he replaced his 318 - which is balanced internally. What a screwup! It came with new oil pump, balancer, pan and other odds and ends as well. I got a factory rebuilt 727 built for street rods, towing and truck applications, along with a new heavy-duty torque converter, from a guy up in the bay area who had scrapped his plans to build a street rod, so it's all bright and shiney as well. The whole package will be as close to new as possible (for me, anyway) which should reduce travel worries a lot.

When you change over to a 4 barrel and etc, you will have a time with the throttle linkage. I did. I fabricated one that works pretty well, but what is really needed is a later model throttle bellcrank to allow the use of a cable instead of the big clumsy rod and bracket business on the older vans. If you find a way to do this I'd be really interested in how you did it.

I hope this answers some of your questions, but feel free to ask as many as you want!

Matt

I'll just be using factory 4bbl linkage and kickdown. I got the parts at the junkyard last time except for the part that goes on the trottle pedal linkage. All the ones there were screwed up. I'll find one eventually as they're pretty common in the late '70s vans down here. If I remember right, the setup for my '79 was different because of the pedal being in a different place. That rig was all messed up because someone yanked out the original 440 engine and put a '72 360 in it. They never did hook up the kickdown linkage so they fried the transmission.

_________________
Nick Taylor - Green & White 1974 Hall GTC.
www.NicksGarage.com == www.HallGTC.com == www.NicksTeardrop.com

Does anybody make a kit to convert the 2 barrel setup to 4 barrel? With all the after-market stuff available you'd imagine that this would be something kind of popular. Getting the bellcrank (the arm that attaches to the end of the foot pedal shaft) off is something I haven't been able to accomplish. It looks like you have to remove the bolt on the clamp and then squeeze the clamp with some kind of monster vicegrip. ????? If you can get this figured out I'll be your first customer.

I've seen a adapter plate to convert a 4 barrel to 2 barrel that way but that is a messy way of doing it.

I think I'm going to attempt a carb rebuild and see if I can get a little longer out of the stock setup. I've been reading about a megasquirt TBI setup.. I know TBI is not great for high performace but for the Hall it could be just the ticket of reliability and consistant MPG. I know dodge used it from 88 to 91 on truck/van 360's. If I can source intake and sensors from a 360 with the 727 then it might be worth giving it a try. The MSD and eletronic fuel pump already made a big differance in it's cold starting ability. Heck after sitting a few months I turned the key and it fired right up. I still need to do a lot more research.

thanks for all the info! My hall had plenty of get up and go for me and does 65 on the freeway no problem and without feeling like we are pushing it to hard. I don't think I'd ever ask the hall to go faster.. the brakes would never stop you in time I'll let you guys know what I find on the TBI setup.

I'm surprised you don't think the brakes are up to the task. While I haven't driven my GTC that much, the brakes seem to be fine. It's no sports car so you still have to plan ahead. I have driven my '79 thousands of miles including many miles towing a car and it has the same basic brake system. It was more than adequate. I did rebuild the brake system when I put it on the road. The booster has recently failed on the GTC, probably from sitting around and then being used. At least it's easy to replace.

Is your booster up to snuff? Rear brakes in good shape? Maybe we need a braking discussion to see what people are finding.

_________________
Nick Taylor - Green & White 1974 Hall GTC.
www.NicksGarage.com == www.HallGTC.com == www.NicksTeardrop.com

I think they are fine and work well but really I think it's more of a weight thing.. I just don't think I'd want to ask the Hall to stop as quick as my subaru on the freeway at speed..

After just driving a loaded 2012 16ft moving truck towing a car from Portland to San Diego I can attest that the brakes are much better on modern vehicles. The transmission helped a bit since it had a tow/haul mode. I haven't had the pleasure of driving a new motorhome but I can imagine it would be much the same.

BTW, I averaged about 10 mpg on the trip through mountains, snow, rain, TRAFFIC and more TRAFFIC. Six speed autos are a wonderful thing. I wonder if I can put one in my GTC? I'd probably get 20 mpg. Dodge just came out with an 8-speed for their trucks, that and a 5.7hemi would be a sweet combo.

_________________
Nick Taylor - Green & White 1974 Hall GTC.
www.NicksGarage.com == www.HallGTC.com == www.NicksTeardrop.com

Ok so I started working on the Van again and decided to go this route for the Carb Replacement.

I have a 2100 from a old 78 thunderbird (351) that is in really good shape. Came accross this post that while not exactly what I'm doing is pretty close.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131514

"BBD = 3 1/4 x 1 7/8 inches 4 bolt 2 bbl
2100 = 5 1/8 x 4 1/2 inches 4 bolt 2 bbl

The Mr Gasket part number is 1937, which is a standard 2 BBL to 4 BBL adapter. The 2100 has a 4 BBL bolt pattern.”

http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gasket-1937-Carburetor-Adapter/dp/B00068OQ1U

I went ahead and ordered the Adapter. Should have it for the weekend. I'll do a write up on how it goes. Could be a cheap option if you want to keep the same intake. The trick will be in getting all the linkage to mesh up but where there is a will there is a way

I was hoping to not have to the swap before next weekend but my power valve is not working on the old carb so we are going to give it a try. Since it looks like I'll be able to keep the stock linkage it will just be a matter of tuning the carb for this engine.

This is the adapter

So turns out I have a Holley carb after all.. Brand logo was hiding under all the dirt... Also that adapter doesn't fit the stock bolts on the intake I have... So in the interest of getting the Van driving again this weekend we are going to attempt to rebuild after all. So I'll report back how that works out for me. May still revisit the swap if needed.

well i talked to my mechanic about changing the setup he said it wasnt necessary especially since its an rv and high performance isnt so much of an issue...4 barrel with the amount of changes it takes to adapt and cost ..so he just bought a repair kit took an hour to fix ...

Did he define "performance"? To me, it isn't about going > 65 (since it eats too much fuel anyway), it's about more power in the mountains and better MPG on the flat because of smaller secondaries. At least that's the claim made by Edelbrock and all the other companies that used to make 4 barrel carbs. After all the s**t I went through with my conversion and the end results, I'm pretty sure that what I REALLY want is TBI - if only to clean up the emissions and get away from high altitude richness and abysmal MPG.

i dont think mpg is an issue with a 4 barrel generally your not going to improve it with that especially with a spacer..he was mainly talking about low end torque and power as opposed to hhigh end...the 4 barrel will give u more of the top end ...but because the 360 was designed fer more low end he said this two barrel works very well with this application on a rv

dual exhausts and a k&n...that will help

Some of the many changes I made in an attempt to improve reliability, power and economy included a new engine, transmission, Edelbrock intake and carburetor, Hedman headers and a 3" single pipe free-flow exhaust system. I talked with every RV performance guy I could prior to making the changes and got about as many opinions..... When I got it, the Hall had autonomous dual exhausts (no crossover pipe) and the stock intake setup and was quite the dog, especially on medium grades. The best exhaust guy in our area convinced me that having a dual exhaust without a crossover was the same as having two 4 cylinder engines and defeated the original intent and advantages of the V8 firing order; mainly the scavenging effect of one cylinder on another and the improved breathing it creates. After changing the system over, the improvement was very noticeable - especially in low to mid range power.

For a 360 CID engine a 4 barrel is probably overkill in most situations. My rig goes much faster and is much more responsive than it was when I got it (it better), so I suppose that I got what I wanted. But like I said before, the real solution is throttle body EFI. Only problem with that approach, though, is the expense. Where do you draw the line with these things, anyway? =(:>o I've put SO much time and $ into it already that it really doesn't matter all that much if I throw a little more into the hole, but the least expensive EFI on the market is around $1,200. - and it needs a paint (or gelcoat) job BADLY.

yes ofc there are a few benefits of the 4 barrel...but like u said cost and time and aggravation...efi yes would be great ..$$$ i agree

remember this is a rv based motor camshafts and all that a vacume based carb is much better than a mechanical bsed carb...and u need a 600cfm carb...and adjust your jets to make sure your not running to lean or not enough...its about the best u can do:)

As shocking as it was to me when I first read it, all we need is a 500 cfm for max performance at < 5,000 RPM. Even tbefi systems use a little 2 barrel throttle body, so in theory, the stock 2 barrel Holley should be adequate..... The biggest issue I had with mine has more to do with less than sparkling performance when attempting to pass and pretty bad MPG. With the Edelbrock it's more keeping the speed down that's the problem and the tendency to use the power to the detriment of my gas tank. I've also heard that fine tuning tb efi systems can be quite the p.i.t.a.

hmm...well according to the typical formula for what u need for it to run at optimum potential would be a 600 cfm carb...

I used a 600 cfm Edelbrock 1400 (nla), which seems to work well enough. The original Carter 2 bbl was rated @ 500 cfm, which Dodge thought was right..... Both of em are extremely loud with the pedal to the metal and the 4 bbl definitely has more oomph, which it should, but not a LOT more. I get the same MPG with both but better on the flat with the Edelbrock. I wish I had a working crystal ball.

I have a 1974 360 Thermoquad in great shape and an aluminum intake manifold. Thought about putting it on mine. I changed my '79 to a Thermoquad and it works great.

_________________
Nick Taylor - Green & White 1974 Hall GTC.
www.NicksGarage.com == www.HallGTC.com == www.NicksTeardrop.com